Thanks, and how to move on..

Fri Feb 22 08:27:11 PST 2002

Good Reply Dave.  Not that I am taking anybody's side (I don't want this to
start again!).

What I meant to say is:
Dave, I like what you just said - you gave the Frontier community a heads up
on what's going on at Userland.  You told us about your committments and
goals, that alone makes me feel better about continuing to committ to use
Frontier for my business.

My 2 cents: Keep the server stable and scalable, the UI is secondary.
Also, as far as support, count me in.  I will do anything I can to help grow
the Frontier community!

Sincerely,
Damien Stevens

-----Original Message-----
From: frontier-users-admin at userland.com
[mailto:frontier-users-admin at userland.com]On Behalf Of Dave Winer
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 11:18 AM
To: Frontier-Users at userland.com
Subject: Thanks, and how to move on..

OK, thanks for the support TQ.

In a way it's good that we've had this diversion.

Let's use this mail list to see we can do to make the software better, and
make you guys more successful using our software, and of course we'd like to
be able to succeed ourselves so we can keep paying the team members so they
can do their jobs, which they do quite well, but they're not perfect, and of
course neither am I.

That was a mouthful!

BTW, we will not be very responsive today. Four of us are going on a field
trip today to Exodus to learn how it works. One of the things we're going to
talk about at lunch is how Doug can work with Frontier users to get the user
experience up, bugs fixed, without breakage to the server environment.
Believe me this is a tough problem, almost unprecedented. I can't think of
another piece of software that has a user interface and is a heavy-duty
mission-critical type server. But Doug has always been able to steadily fix
things, although in the past breakage was an issue. He's been back for four
months now, after missing out on a lot of the new stuff. I believe at this
point he understands how serious an breakage is, that's why I want him to
start working with users.

I hope I've made it very clear -- we're balanced on the sharp edge of a
razor blade in the breakage area. That's why getting the teamwork right is
so important. We just can't have people picking at us the way some do on the
list where we do the work. We can't have a fiction that "Doug is good" and
"Dave is bad" and be able to solve the problems. Fact is, I'm the one person
who has been through the process from beginning to now. So for better or
worse, I'm the guy you're stuck with if you use Frontier. If you give me the
benefit of the doubt you'll be happy with the result.

BTW, I had an idea a few days ago that's worth discussing. We used to have a
validation suite in Frontier called SuperStress. With various personnel
changes over the years, this suite has fallen into disrepair. It occurs to
me that this is somethign Seth, Emmanuel, and many others far too numerous
to mention (really -- this is our strength as a community -- so many
excellent smart people) could write stress scripts that we could run to trap
bugs, and make sure they don't come back.

Dave

----- Original Message -----
From: "TQ White II" <tq at justkidding.com>
To: <Frontier-Users at userland.com>
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 7:27 AM
Subject: Re: [bug] editing long strings

> >  > I'd also like to note that on previous occasions I have had fruitful
> >>  collaborations with Brent Simmons, so I think it's worth stating
Userland
> >  does harbour quite a bit of professionalism and responsability after
all.
>
> I am appalled by this comment.
>
> We are all frustrated at times by the hassles of our software
> vendors, however, to attack all the people in a company at once and
> to call into account their professionalism and integrity is way, way
> beyond the bounds of decency.
>
> Contrary to your insult, my interactions with Userland suggest an
> entire group of people that join Brent in his professional and
> responsible approach. Sometimes they behave differently than I want
> but that doesn't reduce them at all.
>
> When my children start insulting people's behaviour and telling me
> how groups of people are abusive, investigation usually reveals that
> the fault lies with them. Perhaps this Michel Benevento guy ought to
> take a look at himself as he tries to figure out why he is not
> getting the responses he wants out of others. As he questions the
> integrity of others, a brief look at his own might be in order.
>
> I can certainly imagine that anyone who could detect the
> condescension and contempt shown in Michel's posting would be
> reluctant to help him out. "Now that I have your attention," indeed!
> You would never get mine again if I worked there.
>
> Sincerely,
> tqii
> --
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
>
> TQ White II
>
> 708/763-0100
> tq at justkidding.com
> http://www.justkidding.com
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>